Sam is an ordinary American whose life took an unexpected turn when he encountered fentanyl in jail. He overdosed the first time he tried it. In Part 1 of his story, we look at how fentanyl reaches even places people assume are sealed off, jails included, and why it is not limited to any one kind of person. The goal is to talk about fentanyl as something real people are dealing with, not a villain in a headline, and to leave room for hope.
Continue with Part 2 of Sam's story.
We thank our sponsor La Jolla Recovery (www.lajollarecovery.com), a 210 Digital Marketing client, for making it possible to share these conversations about mental health and addiction.
If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline). For treatment referrals, call SAMHSA’s National Helpline at 1-800-662-4357. These are personal stories, not medical advice.
Full transcript
Speakers: Gonzo D. (host) and Sam (guest). Lines marked Show intro are clips from the series opening. This transcript was machine-generated from the episode audio and lightly cleaned for readability; it may contain small errors. Names of other people mentioned in the conversation are withheld. Timestamps match the audio. Download the transcript as a WebVTT caption file.
Introduction and sponsor message [00:00]
[00:00] Gonzo D.: This is Facing Fentanyl. Interviews with actual users.
[00:04] Show intro: That was my first encounter with fentanyl.
[00:06] Gonzo D.: Their experiences.
[00:07] Show intro: My nose was to the steering wheel and I could barely stay awake.
[00:10] Gonzo D.: But most importantly, the lessons leading them out of it.
[00:12] Show intro: I'm the only person in that picture that's still alive today.
[00:15] Gonzo D.: Where they can speak of what it is to be facing fentanyl.
[00:18] Gonzo D.: Drug and alcohol use has increased exponentially during the epidemic and afterwards. Asking for help is not only a stigma, but it is hard to guide someone as they journey towards recovery and prevention. La Jolla Recovery is a science-based detox and rehab that for over a decade has offered tailored programs for those seeking relief from substance use disorders. For more information or questions regarding addiction, visit lajollarecovery.com. That's L-A-J-O-L-L-A recovery.com. That's again L-A-J-O-L-L-A recovery.com.
[00:52] Gonzo D.: And welcome to another podcast of Facing Fentanyl with your host, Gonzo D. And today, we're here with Sam.
[00:55] Sam: Thank you.
[01:00] Gonzo D.: Sam, we have a story to tell. One about recovery, one about experiencing what it is to be on the other side. However, I think it's really important that before talking about how someone begins or finds what fentanyl is, that they realize this is a human story. That you are a person. That it was not like a black and white thing, that there's… Before we get to the past, I do want to talk about the person that's in front of me, who's a health professional, someone who is glowing, someone who is helping people today. So what we're going to be talking about, it is a story because the person that I see in front of me is so full of inspiration and that's why we do what we do in this podcast.
[01:49] Sam: Awesome. That's great.
Childhood, family and a first memory of anxiety [01:51]
[01:51] Gonzo D.: Sam, before fentanyl, tell me a little bit about what it was, tell me a little bit about your youth because I think we've already asked people like what is it, I think people understand what it is, the power that it has, but before, before even getting into substance use disorder, tell me a little bit about Sam.
[01:54] Sam: Okay.
[02:14] Sam: Yeah.
[02:19] Sam: So, I had a great childhood. Crazy family, not cra- crazy in a good way. Really loving family. I'm the youngest of three siblings. My father was a teacher at a high school and my mother was also an educator. So I come from a good family, they were good, loving parents. My father is from Mexico City and my mother is from New York, the Bronx. Puerto Rican from the Bronx. So she would say Nuyorican. It is a little bit, the culture is different I feel like from Puerto Ricans from the island. You know what I mean? I think the culture is just kind of different. One's more Americanized, another one I feel like maybe is a little bit more humble I guess for lack of a better word. But I come from a very awesome family, very proud of where we come from, very cultured, very into like, very into where we come from, where they came from, you know what I mean, their roots. And that was always instilled in me. And yeah, education was always important to me. I used to make car models, that was one of my hobbies was building car models. Music, I played guitar. I liked playing sports with my friends, like on the street or you could say, but organized sports was not my thing. I had way too much anxiety and that's actually, it's interesting that you asked me that because that's actually probably the where, where the beginning of my anxiety actually, I could first really actually kind of trace where my anxiety started or the first like memory of having anxiety happened was playing basketball, playing an organized game of basketball. I played basketball every day with my friends as a kid. I had a hoop outside my, connected to my garage like most people. And I played basketball every day with my friends, I played basketball at school, and then I joined the team, I made the team, and I just would freak out for some reason during an organized game. Like something about people watching, I don't know, I just had tremendous anxiety, I had to quit, it was horrible, and I just, you know, horrible.
[04:34] Gonzo D.: So play was very different than competition and these are some of the first moments that you start experiencing what it is to not be comfortable.
[04:43] Sam: Yeah, but competition I actually like and to this day I always was competitive, but it was just something about, I don't know, everybody sitting and watching, it was like kind of weird to me. It freaked me out. Like I would overthink instead of just enjoying the game and playing.
[05:00] Gonzo D.: And it'd be easy to go like, what does this have to do with fentanyl, which I kind of go like, it has everything to do with fentanyl because there's, it is a symptom. So we're talking about mental health, anxiety, competition, a social, this is perhaps an age where your social experience starts to affect how are we perceived. Did culture have something to do with this? Was it something that…
[05:20] Sam: Yeah, you want to fit in. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[05:28] Sam: Yeah, uh…
[05:31] Gonzo D.: Like you being…
[05:32] Sam: No, not a culture. Maybe a little bit because my brother excelled at sports. He was great at sports and I was not very particularly good, but I enjoyed playing them. And so there was like an expectation, you know what I mean? But…
[05:45] Gonzo D.: So stress of like having to, expectations of…
[05:48] Sam: Yeah, yeah. Yep, expectations and not fulfilling those expectations. And then my parents were very supportive, so I didn't really feel like anything like there was wrong with me, but I also was like disappointed in myself. I remember feeling disappointed, but I didn't like to go to practice, I didn't like to do any of that. They let me do whatever I wanted to do, really.
[06:03] Gonzo D.: Sports can become very stressful here in the United States. You know, it's kind of, whether you get a scholarship or… So you start experiencing anxiety. Do you remember…
[06:08] Sam: Yeah, yeah, okay.
[06:19] Sam: That's the first memory of anxiety.
[06:20] Gonzo D.: First memory of anxiety.
[06:21] Sam: That's the first memory of anxiety.
Starting with alcohol and marijuana in high school [06:23]
[06:23] Gonzo D.: Before fentanyl, do you remember what it was to be experiencing with substances or how does that journey, if you may, begin towards…
[06:36] Sam: So in high school, like most American kids, I started drinking and smoking weed with my friends.
[06:45] Gonzo D.: That was just common.
[06:46] Sam: That's just pretty common.
[06:48] Gonzo D.: Did it start with alcohol?
[06:50] Sam: The first, yeah, alcohol. Alcohol, marijuana.
[06:53] Gonzo D.: Now this is done before the age of obviously 21.
[06:56] Sam: Since about 14. Yeah, 14.
[06:57] Gonzo D.: Access to it is quite, it's common at a party, somebody buys it for someone?
[07:02] Sam: Yeah, we either would go steal it from the store, just grab, smash and grab, grab it and run. Me and my buddies were a little, you know, my best friend got kicked out of school for that. He had a, he brought a bottle to, to high school and it fell out of his backpack in front of the principal, he got expelled. And he's also, not who introduced me to crystal meth, but we smoked crystal meth together. His father was using meth. And we would get it from his father. I mean, me and my friends would get it. And then, I mean, availability was never an issue in high school.
[07:06] Gonzo D.: Smash and grab.
[07:13] Gonzo D.: For that.
[07:28] Gonzo D.: So it…
[07:34] Gonzo D.: Was alcohol socially acceptable?
[07:36] Sam: Yeah, you were cool. It was, it was even more, I think, um, I think like for a lot of kids, the cool kids smoke weed and drink in the United States.
[07:51] Gonzo D.: Okay, so there's a social pressure for it.
[07:53] Sam: Yeah, yeah. But I, but I never really felt that pressure. I was always just into it. I always was, I saw, I saw a movie when I was a kid, it was about Jim Morrison, it was called The Doors. And I saw Dazed and Confused. There was like a huge drug influence in that movie, drug culture. And it really like fascinated me, like the lifestyle of using drugs, like the way that they sensationalize drug use. And you have like, it just seemed fascinating to me.
[08:24] Gonzo D.: So it sounds too like it wasn't the first experience or when you were exposed, it wasn't uncomfortable or there were certain, you were like, I just wanted to be a part of.
[08:30] Sam: No, I sought it out. I sought it out, yeah, I wanted to.
[08:35] Gonzo D.: And once experiencing, once, how did it affect you personally, meaning that was it something that…
[08:41] Sam: Yeah, at first, getting high on marijuana as a kid, I got a little paranoid, but then it was like mostly euphoria. And then it just kind of became about hanging out with my friends, ditching class, and then going to go smoke weed with my buddies and we would just listen to music and hang out and then other kids from the block would come and it was just more, it was a social thing. Uh, it was fun, it was exciting. And it was like, you know, um, yeah, it was, it was great. And I think a lot of, a lot of kids experience this like in the, in the US, it's very common, you know?
[09:17] Gonzo D.: Absolutely. I, I, I don't know exactly the statistics, but it's, uh, substance use disorder is, uh, is, is quite common to say the least. And it's a very vulnerable age.
[09:28] Sam: Yeah.
[09:29] Gonzo D.: You know, insecurities, uh, hormones. So any part of a social context becomes kind of like, hey, if they're doing it, uh, so you go through certain discomfort, you say there was a little, you said a little, uh, did you say para- paranoia, a little paranoia?
[09:46] Sam: A little paranoia, but for the most part it was, it was, it was great. I, I loved it.
[09:50] Gonzo D.: So it felt, it, it felt, it was something that felt good as well.
[09:54] Sam: Yes, definitely. Most of the time.
[09:55] Gonzo D.: And no big consequences, meaning that are you start- will, were you starting to see some consequences at school, at home? Did, did family start noticing? Did they ever speak about it kind of like, we're okay with you drinking, but you, you smell, what is it?
[10:11] Sam: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that did happen.
[10:13] Gonzo D.: Did they find out?
[10:14] Sam: That did happen, yeah. They eventually found out, they were not okay with it.
[10:18] Gonzo D.: How, how did you receive that?
[10:19] Sam: I agreed, I guess. I agreed. I, I felt that it was probably not the best thing to do at the time. I didn't, I didn't, you know, I, I agreed it probably wasn't, it was affecting me in terms of my, my school.
[10:31] Gonzo D.: So you were like, I agree, it's, this is a…
[10:33] Sam: I agreed. Yeah. I, I fought, I pushed back because I wanted to continue using. I, I felt addicted immediately. I felt addiction immediately, like…
[10:44] Gonzo D.: So it was like, I want to do more of this.
[10:46] Sam: Of course, yeah.
[10:47] Gonzo D.: So the thought of I want to stop doesn't even cross the mind at that moment. You're like, this is something that's very…
[10:51] Sam: No, I felt like I could control it.
[10:53] Gonzo D.: Okay.
[10:54] Sam: And that's probably one of the, the biggest down, uh, one of the most, um, you know, I was a drug addict for over 20 years and I'm 39 now. I've been clean for four years.
[11:07] Gonzo D.: Four years.
[11:08] Sam: Yeah. And I was always able to control it to a degree, you know what I mean? To, except for the end. And I mean, I, I would lie to myself and think I was controlling it. I don't think that was actually the case, but that's how I felt, you know?
[11:22] Gonzo D.: So from, from, from…
[11:23] Sam: I was able to stop. I was able to use it for a few days and then stop or I was able to like get my mind together to, to do homework or to go to work.
[11:32] Gonzo D.: So you were still being able to, to go through the education.
[11:34] Sam: Yes, yeah. So I didn't, I wanted to, I wanted to stop when I felt like I could stop. Not when anybody else was going to tell me to stop. I felt like I, I knew when I could and when I, when I…
[11:44] Gonzo D.: Was it a stigma in your home, the alcohol or cannabis or kind of…
[11:50] Sam: No. Not really, not so much.
[11:51] Gonzo D.: They were almost both at the same level.
[11:53] Sam: No, the, the, the marijuana, yes. The alcohol, no.
[11:57] Gonzo D.: Got it.
[11:58] Sam: Yeah, the alcohol, there was no stigma.
[12:00] Gonzo D.: And did they ever, uh, like quote unquote catch you or see that you had, that you possessed or no, that was, it was just kind of like, hey, the partying. Was it like a general thing, hey, your partying is getting out of…
[12:08] Sam: No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[12:12] Gonzo D.: Did you arrive later than normal?
[12:13] Sam: Maybe all those typical things.
[12:15] Gonzo D.: Maybe all those things.
[12:16] Sam: Yeah.
[12:16] Gonzo D.: So some of these things you go like, yeah, maybe. So there are times that you try to like step away or reduce.
[12:22] Sam: Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I always felt like I was doing the right thing though, because I was still going to school and, and getting good grades. So I was like, that was my, my, uh, my argument, you know, I'm taking, I'm still taking care of business even though I'm, I'm using. That's how I would justify it.
First exposure to methamphetamine [12:37]
[12:37] Gonzo D.: Right, right. There's no yet significant consequences for, for anybody to point out, hey, have you thought that this might have… So things are going forward. You mentioned meth. When, something tells me that there's a, it starts meaning you're not at the first party like, hey, do you want a, do you want a can of beer and here, here's some meth. Uh, was it the same group of people? Um, how did, or how, how were you exposed to, to methamphetamines?
[13:09] Sam: So in high school, let me think, I have to think actually. Um, the, so in high school, we used to go to this coffee shop after school and we would smoke cigarettes and just hang out. And then there was an older girl there and her boyfriend had just gone, she was smoking crystal meth and her boyfriend had just went to jail. And she, we, everybody knew she was doing it. We kind of looked down on her a little bit, um, but she was older so we kind of thought she was cool. She could buy us cigarettes or whatever. We were maybe 15 and she was maybe 18 or 17, something like that. And, uh, we, we were hanging out one day and I asked her, and I knew she was going to the bathroom to use it. And so I had already been drinking and smoking weed, so I was curious and I asked her, well, you know, do you have, like, do you have some? And she said, yeah. And I said, well, can I, let me, let me try some. And so we went to the bathroom and she let me try some. And I didn't feel anything the first time. Um, I was still a kid though. What did I know? So I, I really, I was literally a kid, but she, she was the one that, that introduced me to it. Um, we later started dating later on. Um, but that's a whole different story. But, um, but yeah, she's the one that introduced me to it. And I mean, I did it one time, it was no big deal. And then maybe six months later, I, uh, met my, my, one of my best friends who I'm still in contact with today, he's doing really well. But his father, I, I mentioned him earlier, his father was using crystal meth and he was using crystal meth occasionally with these two girls that lived in a garage down the street from him. They were crazy. They were like these crazy hippie girls, also older girls, like 18, 19. Um, and so to us it was, we thought we were, we were really, um, we thought we were really cool. We were hanging out with these older girls and using drugs with them. And that's kind of my, my introduction to the first like feeling of it and doing it reg- regularly.
[14:58] Gonzo D.: What was the experience?
[15:00] Gonzo D.: We'd like to thank our sponsor, La Jolla Recovery, before getting back to our interview. La Jolla Recovery is an alcohol and drug treatment center in San Diego, providing evidence-based solutions to addiction for over 12 years. The pandemic has impacted mental health immensely, and if you're wondering whether a loved one or yourself might be using a substance beyond recreation or fun or social bonding, La Jolla Recovery wants to answer all your questions in a private and confidential manner at lajollarecovery.com. That's L-A-J-O-L-L-A-recovery.com. That's again, L-A-J-O-L-L-A-recovery.com. Now back to our interview.
[15:39] Gonzo D.: This podcast continues in the next episode. This is Facing Fentanyl.